Simply ‘Ellen’s’ name stays a secret, here seems to be no-one titled Ellen otherwise Helen, except maybe an ‘Eleanor’ into the Joanna’s side (Eleanor out-of Aquitaine, mother off Joanna’s father King John)
Hey, men. It is it’s interesting; everything i wouldn’t have made available to have access to this informative article twenty-five years before when i was comparing and you can writing Here Be Dragons!
An important function of which exercise is to use, of the a look at genealogist’s views on the subject by asking some identified unique provide, to choose who had been the caretaker from Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Was she Joanna, spouse out of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, died. February 1237) or are she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch of Rhos, mistress regarding Llywelyn, created circa. 1168, died??
I shall stick to this which have a vacation study with the it is possible to existence off a great ded Susanna, given over to Queen Henry 111 given that good hostage when you look at the 1228 with her infant custody being offered to Sir Nicholas Verdun and his wife Clementia.
This new feedback of Genealogists that i possess analyzed are merely you to, feedback, and differ significantly. Zero chosen proof is available in any event, but i have to state that the vast majority of hold getting Gwladus getting the daughter of Joanna. This is especially valid of one’s genealogists of the descendants off the fresh De Braose family relations, nonetheless they ily is associated with the Welsh and English regal domiciles!
The ensuing list out of Llywelyn’s multiple legitimate and illegitimate college students seems to be generally approved by the genealogists that we possess studied apart from variations more whether #9 extremely resided. The latest dates out of beginning here also are disputed by the particular:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, created circa.1199, passed away 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, passed away 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince out of Wales, created circa 1208 (1211?) (doubts about this big date, select later), passed away 25 February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1210, passed away 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – produced circa 1210, you are able to dual to help you Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, or ‘Susanna’, produced circa 1214? Died 1259?
Discover much argument over the term of one’s moms and dads of this type of pupils. There is general contract the simply specific college students regarding Llywelyn’s e Prince out of Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) whom partnered (1) John the fresh Scot, young man of the earl out-of Chester and you can (2) Robert de- Quincy. In the event view try divided over the moms and dads out-of Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you can Susanna, a lot of genealogists I’ve learned slim with the their mom are Joanna.
This will be partly https://brightwomen.net/tr/sirp-kadinlar/ making use of their going dates off delivery just like the really because their marriage ceremonies to several marcher lords whom, one supposes, will have wanted to line up their homes to that of their neighbor, the fresh Prince out-of North Wales and his partner, the fresh king of England’s daughter. It is felt that these lords of your March won’t have seen so much interest otherwise governmental inspiration from inside the marrying out of its sons with the illegitimate daughters out of good Welsh prince which have a good Welsh woman.
As to the labels of these students, whether because of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, they were the called immediately after people in Llywelyn’s friends:
Ken, we are entirely on your own debt
Llywelyn’s mother is actually titled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ out of Gwynedd. Their paternal granny is actually entitled ‘Gwladus’. Mom and dad of his grandmother Susanna, was basically ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you can ‘Angharad’ away from Flint and you may one another the labels got to help you Llywelyn’s college students. It Susanna also got a sister called ‘Gwenllian’, a similar name since Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.